The Type A+ Podcast Season 3 Episode 6: Mastering the Art of Sales: Tips and Tools with Nick Outlaw
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Episode Description:
In this captivating episode, Nick Outlaw, Area Event Sales Manager for Richard Sandoval Hospitality, shares his expertise in sales and event management, offering valuable advice for aspiring professionals. Tune in to gain insights into maintaining a successful sales career while balancing personal passions and mentorship endeavors.
Key Themes and Topics:
Nick's journey in the hospitality industry, from server to Area Event Sales Manager.
The importance of mentorship and developing future sales managers.
Strategies for maintaining a work-life balance in sales.
Nick's venture into fashion and his vision for men's intimate wear.
The significance of over-communicating and teamwork in sales and event management.
Nick’s Bio:
With over 17 years of experience in the hospitality industry, Nick Outlaw is an accomplished Area Sales Manager for the PA and NY region for Richard Sandoval Hospitality. Nick oversees large event booking for Aqimero, located in the Ritz Carlton Philadelphia, where his office is based. Tan, in Midtown NYC and Maya, in the Upper East Side round out the properties in his region. Curating events that will be memorable for a lifetime is his passion and the best part of his day to day. Nick is passionate about mentoring aspiring sales professionals and is also a budding fashion entrepreneur, with a vision for revolutionizing men's intimate wear.
Links mentioned in the episode:
HOST:
Beth Lawrence Meetings & Events Instagram
The Type A Plus Podcast Instagram
Beth and other Type A+ Guests will be back each week, delivering bite-sized tips on how to optimize your work and life.
GUEST:
Episode Transcript can be found below:
Beth Lawrence: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the type a plus podcast. I don't even have words for the guests that we have today. Nick has been a friend, family member, one of my best friends, basically, for The better part of eight years now, something like that, something like, he worked with my husband at a previous job.
And as soon as my husband started there and met Nick, he said, you guys will love each other. And he was not wrong. Nick outlaw, please introduce yourself to everyone and tell them a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Nick Outlaw: Sure, absolutely. Wow. Yes. It has been roughly about eight years when we met.
I was not Nick outlaw though. No,
Beth Lawrence: no, I was not. And I was not, I was not Beth Lawrence either.
Nick Outlaw: It's been a wild ride in hospitality. I've been, somewhat connected to hospitality for the better part of, I want to say 17 years or so. Currently, I'm the Area Sales Manager for Richard Sandoval Hospitality.
They operate 60 restaurants, globally, and that's as far as Abu Dhabi, Greece, Mexico, definitely the United States. I focus primarily on the New York and Pennsylvania regions. So I have three locations that I book large events for. It's my dream job. I absolutely love what I do day to day.
Of course, I have some outside passions, one of which is developing future sales managers, anyone interested in getting into the business. I love to sort of hold their hand.
There's not a lot of guidelines out there for people to understand as far as training. the do's and don'ts in this business. I also have a fashion line that I've been brainstorming and working the kinks out over the last three years. I have my one and a half year old godson, who is the joy of my life.
So very busy.
Beth Lawrence: The cutest, cutest child as well. Thank you so much, Nick, for sharing. I love how multifaceted you are and it sounds like you are extremely busy. And sales, I feel like probably comes naturally to you because you're so great with people. Is that what you love about your job day to day?
Nick Outlaw: I do no, two days are the same.
there was a fork in the road in my history with working with restaurants, being a server formerly. There was a decision that had to be made. Do you want to go into the operation side of management? Or do you want to go into uncharted territory, so to speak, for the majority of the people that are going through restaurant management?
And that would be getting into sales and I think it was during my tenure at the Capitol Grill. This was back in 2010 when I met one of my mentors, Christine Rapetto, and I just watched her work and watched her day to day and what she was responsible for and how she had a really great, work life balance.
And I said, Oh, okay. If I'm going to get into management, that's the way I want to go. So that's the route I took and I haven't looked back.
Beth Lawrence: Oh, that sounds like you made the absolute right decision. And I, having some experience in sales and restaurants, I loved that you were kind of the only person in the restaurant that does what you do, right. You manage a team, but you're the only department that does what you do.
You have such a unique schedule to your point. From everyone else in the restaurant business. And you kind of get to figure out how to manage and balance the day on your own.
How do you do it? How do you manage your day to day or balance everything with three different locations in multiple different physical locations?
Nick Outlaw: Of course, Richard Sandoval Hospitality was instrumental in giving me one restaurant at a time so that I could get my footing, having come from a location, Ocean Prime, previously where it was just the one restaurant, multiple event spaces, but just one location, brick and mortar.
They gave me Akimero first, then I got Maya, which is located in the Upper East Side, and then the last one was Tan, which is in Midtown. So only getting one restaurant at a time, I was able to get acclimated to the style, how busy the inquiries are, and then just creating a daily steps of service for myself.
So the first thing that I do is, Checking leads for all three properties. I respond to leads first in the morning. Then I'll check Any communication and triple seed. And for those of you who are in sales, you know exactly what triple seat is. It is the lifeline, the whole platform where all of the event communication takes place, contracts and that sort of thing.
So I checked my communication there. Then I checked my personal email and then I checked my schedule calls, through Calendly. so that's usually my protocol every single day. And it helps me stay busy. I also believe that. You have to have a work life balance and you have to protect your quality of life and your mental sanity.
So I don't respond to every email that comes through when it comes through, I prioritize it. Is it a new client? Is it someone who's trying to get pricing information or is it someone who I've already been working with and they want to make a change to their menu? Like how important is this email?
That's been the biggest thing that I've learned in this business is to protect your peace and protect your mental sanity and prioritize things as they come in, because otherwise you'll just be a slave to work.
And that's no fun.
Beth Lawrence: No, absolutely no fun. Was that a hard lesson to learn for you, or was that something that came naturally as soon as you accepted the first sales position?
Nick Outlaw: It wasn't a hard lesson, I didn't, go through any trials and tribulations that helped me to arrive at that decision.
What I will say is that the first few years of being a sales manager, especially at ocean prime, where my best friend was the GM and we were all new managers basically. So I thought. Initially, yeah, you have to be available 24 hours a day. You have to put your cell phone number on your business card.
I still have my cell phone number on my business card though. But I thought, yeah, you're not just a nine to five. You have to be available. People have questions, so you must make yourself available. And then, after being in the business for a few years, I realized you don't have to be available 24 hours a day.
No one's compensating you. For being available 24 7. So, you carve out time where you can speak to your guests and they can get back to you. Calendly, which my direct supervisor, Megan Fightmaster, she's the national director of sales for Richard Sandoval Hospitality. She was the one who told me about Calendly.
And for those of you who don't have it, you should get it. Because the best, being able to set your hours that people can schedule was pivotal in my work life balance. So I preach that all day. Definitely get a Calendly if you don't have one.
Beth Lawrence: I love it. I'm hearing control your calendar and Calendly is a great way to do that. I actually had a client when Calendly first came out, I was doing a lot of correspondence for this client and they did not want to Switch over to Calendly. They said, no, I think it's super impersonal. And, it just, it's just a few emails, just a few emails back and forth to try to schedule something.
Well, a few emails. If you have leads from three different restaurants, or if you're talking to 20 different prospects each week, A few emails per prospect to try to schedule. That's a lot of time. That's a really quick way to take your time back. And the best part of it is, as you said, you can set your own hours and make your own schedule so that if someone says, Oh, I wanted to book at 7 30 PM on a Saturday for a call with you, you could say, Oh, I'm sorry, that's not in my schedule or my availability.
But please select one of these following times.
Nick Outlaw: Absolutely. And I still deal with the occasional, person calling me at 8 o'clock at night, because they've gotten my information from a host or a manager at one of the locations regarding booking something large. And, I've gotten to the point where now I can kindly let them know that I'll get back to them during business hours.
If they call me on a Saturday at eight o'clock, I'll let them know. I'll get back to you on Monday. Now mind you, if it is a buyout, then that's where you have to put your sales manager cap on and say, is it worth me? Having the weekend free or possibly losing out on tens of thousands of dollars in sales.
So, um, yeah, you have to make those decisions as well.
Beth Lawrence: Yeah. I know as an entrepreneur or freelancer, it's similar to what you're saying. It's like, you tell clients, no, this is the way that I prefer to be contacted. Then they get your cell phone number and maybe they call after hours and you have to decide whether it's an emergency based on them thinking it's an emergency or it's something you could truly take care of and make the client super happy and not have a lot of stress on your end.
Nick Outlaw: Exactly. Stress is the killer.
Beth Lawrence: Stress is the killer, especially for type A people. So knowing you, I feel like I could probably pinpoint a few things that you're type A about.
And when I say type A, I am not saying that as an insult. I think it's an empowering thing. What are you type a about outside of work?
Nick Outlaw: Outside of work? I just like things organized. I think organization, whether that's your kitchen, my kitchen has got to be organized. You've seen my little snack tray display that I have, on my counter.
Every time it gets depleted and we have to replenish it, it needs to be arranged, just so, um, you know.
Beth Lawrence: For context, it looks like a minibar at a hotel. It looks like, oh, here, welcome guests, please take this lovely refreshment.
Nick Outlaw: It's a great little welcome to my apartment. We have a variety of different snacks and candies and cookies and things.
And that's one thing that I just like. Organization in my home, organization with my closet, it makes getting ready, and you know how obsessed with fashion I am. Absolutely. And it just makes getting, getting ready easier. So I just like organization both.
In my work, but also outside of work. you stay ready. You don't have to get ready. Oh, yes.
Beth Lawrence: You don't have to get ready. One of the things that I wanted to talk to you about, knowing your path in organizing, growing up with the hospitality industry throughout your life, you've mentioned you were a server in the past and I too was a server. And also with commission and bonuses, you also have a little bit of this as a sales manager. As a type, a person, someone who likes things to be organized, likes things to be a little bit predictable, or at least to have control of things.
Has it ever been a challenge for you to have like unpredictable income, right? Cause it can be a great when you are making a ton of money, um, or holiday seasons or party season or whatever it is. And then there can also be challenges where You can't necessarily predict the income depending on your role and depending on your structure.
That's coming in the door. For those of us that are listening that are commission based or salespeople or dealing with that unpredictability of being a freelancer or small business owner, whatever it might be. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Nick Outlaw: Absolutely. So even though, of course, you never knew what you were walking into as far as cover counts or how much you would make at the end of the day, on a day to day basis, you can still find trends in anything, even unpredictable pay.
So I would Basically figure out how much I would make throughout a weekday, how much on average I would make it a weekend. And this is different properties. I've worked for Capitol grill, Del Frisco's, ocean prime, different restaurants. But I would give it a month. Like my first stint at ocean prime, I was there for nine months and realized, you know what?
I'm not making the money that I was making at Capitol grill, but it took nine months for me to figure that out. It wasn't just, Oh, I'm going to try it out for a week or two. It was like, no, I want to give it some time that I can actually see on an average weekday, both in season, out of season, weather permitting, weather not permitting, what kind of money I should expect to make.
And then, based on that, you can know if you need to either ask for a raise, ask to get into management, leave that job and search for another job. But you want to give it some time and definitely look out for trends, because even though you don't know what you're making, you can then after several months say, on average, this is what I should expect based on my level of service and the menu prices.
Beth Lawrence: Yeah, absolutely. That totally makes sense. And I feel like it's probably similar when it comes to sales, right? Just looking at the calendar or a convention calendar of some kind of like, where is the business coming from this year? When can we expect to be super busy? And then from there saying, okay, maybe planning to be for your bonus to be a little bit more this month, a little less this month, whatever that may be.
Nick Outlaw: Yeah, because we all get a base salary as far as sales managers. But then you get commissioned based on your sales and depending on what property you're selling, what their sales have been in the past and then just like a server, what your talents are, what your level of services, what your level of outreach is, what your level of marketing is, what your level of networking is. You have to take ownership.
It can't just be, Oh, no one called to book a party today. Well, what are you doing to actively bring in sales as well? So there needs to be that dichotomy there. That push and pull.
Beth Lawrence: Yeah. And I love that you say, what are you doing to bring in business? Because that strikes me as a reason that Being a sales manager is probably great for type a people actually, because type a people tend to feel like we like to control things.
We like to feel that we can influence aspects of our lives. And the thing that I found, I don't know if you found this, if you just do one networking activity, the business might not even come from that activity, but because you're putting it out into the universe, you're doing things to drum up business. You'll get the business from other places.
Nick Outlaw: Absolutely. I went to a sales conference. This was back in, I want to say November of last year and Gary Vanderchuck was there and he spoke. One of the things that he said was, if something is free, Why aren't you doing it? Like a LinkedIn post, for instance, it's free to post, it's free to join, utilize everything that you can, that's at your disposal.
And then, if things still don't pan out the way you wanted them to, being able to say, I absolutely did everything that I could to make it happen. Yeah, I love being on an island, so to speak.
Like I work with a lot of people, but not directly. I have three different operations teams that execute the events that I book, but none of them are really involved with the booking. They are involved once the booking is done. So I do have the autonomy of working alone and making things happen on my own.
And then once those bookings solidify and are concrete, then having that discussion with the operations team to actually execute the vision of the guests.
Beth Lawrence: I mean, teamwork is so crucial as with what you do, because you have to be able to trust that when you're not there, people can execute on your vision.
What are some great tips for if a lot of us work remotely now? If we're working with cross functional teams that don't necessarily house themselves where we are.
What are your some top tips for great communication to make sure that they know everything that they need to in order to execute on the vision to your point that you've been talking about with the client, sometimes for up to a year before the event.
Nick Outlaw: Yeah, absolutely. There, there are several emails and phone calls that have happened for that event to now be on the calendar.
And so one of the things that is really important. I know people talk about communication, but actual over communication. So weekly with each property, I'll send them an email in like the middle of the week for the next 10 days.
And if I'm doing this weekly, then of course events overlap. So that's me just a little nudging reminder that you have this event coming up in 10 days. Now you have an event coming up in, you know, three days because I reminded you seven days later, and then we have a weekly Zoom call. where they can see my face, we can physically talk through all of the videos for the upcoming week.
If they have questions, we can bounce that off. And then we're also in a WhatsApp chat because a lot of these properties and associates that I work with are international. And so the WhatsApp group chat is short form. If they have a quick question about an event possibly taking place this week, in real time, they could send a little note about the setup or about the menu or about the fact that the event's behind in timing.
So just being accessible and definitely over communicating because to some that might be excessive. Like, why do I have to email you and have a zoom call? And then also you're texting me. Well, I don't have events that go south because I over communicate and I'm not there to actually physically execute the vision of the host.
I have to entrust my operations team with that. So all the details have to be, as one of my directors put it, able for a two year old to understand.
Beth Lawrence: Yes. Yes. I'm hearing a few great tips. I love your weekly email that also includes not only that upcoming week, but looking into probably that weekend, right.
The upcoming next weekend of like, I know you're going to be busy on these days with other things, but just letting you know, there's this big thing happening in house, you know, FYI for scheduling all of that. I also love that you communicate multiple times about the same thing, right. On your zoom call, on your email, and then on the WhatsApp. But I think also people receive information in different ways. People are able to actually grasp information. It's great to get an email because then you can read through it, hopefully. But then having the zoom call. Hey, if they didn't read it, you can tell that they didn't read it and then you can get questions answered.
But if they did read it, then they can come with the questions and say like, Nick, I'm not really clear on this. Can you help us with that? How many servers do you think we'll need for this? And then it's really just making sure that they understand. It's like assigning homework, but it sounds like it's a really effective way of making sure that everyone Knows what's going on, and absolutely echo what you said, as far as if you think you're over communicating, you probably have not communicated enough.
Every detail makes a difference, especially when you're dealing with a restaurant who it's not, it's only function is not to have special events, but it's a great aspect of the business.
Nick Outlaw: property that I work with doesn't, need the same amount of attention or handholding. I have a property, it was actually Richard's first property, Maya, 25 years old.
They could run that restaurant without any managers. The staff there has been there for several years and so they can run an event blindfolded with one hand tied behind their back but I still give them the same support and the same communication as I do my newly opened restaurant, that's only been around for a year, because I want them to feel supported.
I want them to feel like I'm only a phone call and an email away if you need me.
Beth Lawrence: Yeah, I love that. So Nick, so you mentioned in your intro that you dabble in fashion.
And talk about, because that's obviously a very different sort of part of your brain, right? That's more of a creative, pursuit. So tell me about that.
Nick Outlaw: I think that you always should have multiple things going on, or at least, things that you are interested in. I know I've heard that if you want to be wealthy or financially secure, you have to have multiple streams of income and so my way of tackling that, I figured there was a missed opportunity with fashion when it comes to men's lounge wear and intimate wear.
And I had this epiphany after me and my ex husband parted ways and I found myself single, and I think I might have been 38 at the time, but I remember for those of you who are getting back out into the dating world, you know it can be a little daunting and you're trying to put your best foot forward and re acclimate yourself to what it's like to be on the apps and all of that.
And part of that, I was like, I wonder if Someone has come out with like intimate wear for men. It's been years. There's been a lot of progression in my day and age. I grew up with queer as folk and those were revolutionary things on television and it just wasn't a lot of exposure. I loved Queer as Folk.
I haven't loved that show. Yeah, no. Amazing. But there just wasn't a lot out there. And then back in 2020 when I was starting this. I wondered if there had been any movement, if the needle had been pushed any, as far as men's intimate wear. And it hadn't, still.
And so. That's wild. Yeah, well, yeah they have some options, it's just not a lot out there. And in my opinion, those that were designing were not the people who were actually going to wear it. Like you could tell. that they had no idea what people who really want to, men who really want to wear intimate wear, what we want to look like.
And so I thought, you know what, I'm going to come up with my own line. And I designed a few pieces. I reached out to a designer in New York who kind of understood my vision and she made up patterns for me. And then I had those manufactured and I'm at the step now where I'm looking for a distributor.
And also a team to put together because this is not something that I want to venture out on my own. It is a passion of mine, but like you mentioned, I don't have a huge amount of time. And so coming up with a team that I could put together artistic director who may be in charge of, the aesthetics of a website or photo shoots or things like that, having somebody who's a point person for them.
Manufacturer making sure the product comes in and you know is looking amazing and up to our standards. There may be somebody a point person just in charge of like logistic shipping and processing orders and things like that. So I definitely want to get a team together, but I have my first Michi.
He works with me here. he's one of the, Associates for the Ritz Carlton. He and I have been speaking. He already has a line. He's launched several products in the past. And he already has some manufacturing connections. And so I actually have to schedule a meeting with him in the next week or so now that my side gig is over. I was consulting for this restaurant that just opened in Westchester a few weeks back, that's another passion of mine, developing new sales managers and that's coming to an end this Friday. So I'll have time to start scheduling some meetings for us to get this line on the calendar here.
Beth Lawrence: Oh my gosh, that's so exciting. I remember when you started to talk about it and the seed was planted and now to see where it is and where you're envisioning it for the future is so cool. I love that you noticed that there was something that was missing specifically for you, but also for people in your community.
And the fact that you are going to be the one spearheading this and making sure that it's made with care and for the community by the community is super important too, because you, it's better than a large retailer trying its hand at something like this without really understanding the demographic that they are working with or for.
Nick Outlaw: No, absolutely. I remember when I opened the business bank account for the lingerie company. And I keep saying going back and forth with intimate wear lounge wear lingerie, it's sort of all encompassing. But I remember having a conversation with the two gentlemen who worked at the bank that I opened the account at.
We all were part of the LGBTQ plus community and they were so excited that I was launching this company and we just had a very frank conversation. Basically we all shop at the same places because that's all that's available really, especially in our price point. And this is just generally in, in, in the gay community and especially the black gay community of which I'm a part. We just put up with it. No one really caters to us. No one really is designing for us. And so we all end up wearing very similar things.
And all I wanted to do was come up with another option that is, like you said, by the community for the community, specifically with men like me in mind.
Beth Lawrence: Amazing. Amazing. I, I can't wait to see what you do with it. Final question. You touched a little bit on mentorship. So it's amazing to me that you are seeing opportunities to really nurture and develop others to come up behind you in the industry. So what are you, what are you doing with your mentees?
How are you developing them?
Nick Outlaw: Sure. I got the first opportunity to pour into someone and develop someone when I was leaving Ocean Prime. One of the prerequisites for me to take this new position was that I needed 30 days before I started to develop my replacement at Ocean Prime. I had a great relationship working with them, and I didn't want to leave them without the tools that they would need to be successful moving forward without me.
I got to develop a young lady named Jillian, fresh out of college, very limited experience in the restaurant business. And so I just took her under my wing and taught her everything I knew. She was already working at Ocean Prime, as the lead host, and the company to be frank was a little nervous about putting her in a position, going from host to sales manager.
They were a little nervous without any experience, but I assured them that. I didn't have any experience at some point. You just have to take that leap of faith and learn as you go. She's doing exceptionally well. She's still at Ocean Prime, flourishing.
And then, like I said, the restaurant in Westchester, Nine Prime, I was able to train, the young lady Philanza, she's doing amazing. And most recently, a previous host that worked at Aqimero one of my properties under Richard Sandoval, she left the host stand to basically book sales at, To art galleries in Chester, Pennsylvania, and she just had questions.
They were taking deposits on cash app. And so she was like, Nick, we need to my goodness, she was like, Can you meet with my directors? Can you sit down with us and tell them why we should look into triple seed and, how we can make all of our processes better and what you see as far as what we need to do with this space. And so I did a walk through with them and sat down with them for an hour or so, and told them all the benefits of triple seed and Calendly, and, explain to them that there are better, more efficient ways of doing business and booking these events.
Yeah, I'm happy to pour into it. To anyone who's looking to get into this business, because I am so passionate about it.
Beth Lawrence: That's fantastic. And on that note, would you be able to share with the listeners, how they can get in touch with you?
Nick Outlaw: Sure. So you can reach me via email at noutlaw@richardsandoval.Com or you can find me on LinkedIn under, Nick out.
Well, I'm, I think I'm the only one
Beth Lawrence: and he's very, very active on LinkedIn y'all. And if you're not active on LinkedIn, especially if you are in sales or looking to get in sales, I absolutely recommend it. Nick, thank you so much for joining me today. You have been just such a delight. I'm so excited to share your story and your insights with the audience and hopefully we'll see you soon.
Nick Outlaw: Absolutely. I appreciate the opportunity and you know, I'm wherever you need me to be. Love you.
Beth Lawrence: Love you too. Thank you so much listeners. And we'll be back next time with a new episode of the type a plus podcast. Take care. Bye.